Tuesday, 14 April 2009

  • An Old Letter about "true" (tm) Christianity


    Lately, I've been doing my best to demolish the idea that there is such a thing as "true" Christianity, and I've aimed this at people on my side of the fence to both motivate them and prepare them to engage this argument, but I've also aimed it at the moderate Christians that frequent my site.  When "truth" is to be weighed by scales of faith, no belief is discernible from another in terms of credibility.  As Friedrich Nietzsche once put it, "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."

    On a daily basis you can find numerous cases of people doing insanely stupid, dangerous things because they were driven by faith.  So often we hear cries that the atheist has caricatured faith by pointing these things out.  The charge is that we are highlighting a handful of extremists (of course, there's far more than a handful), and we are admonished to accept that these people have somehow gotten faith wrong.  This statement is usually followed by a pablum of condescending sighs and an insistence that the moderate's faith teaches something completely different than the lunatic in question.  But what are religious people really expressing when they say that a particularly dangerous person's faith is not their faith?  Here are some options.

    1.  My faith is more likely to be true than theirs.
    2.  My faith is not more likely to be true, but it is more benign.

    I can't think of any other implications we could glean from that sentence.  Can you?  Leave a comment and I'll add them if you can.

    I think the second option once thought through defaults back to the first.  Maybe god wants us to kill certain people (if you're a Christian, you must admit that he has wanted it before), and if faith can lead us to truth then you must be aware of why your faith is more likely to be true than the extremist's faith, since you think god wants something different than what the wackos say god wants.  Therefore it's not enough to simply say that your faith is different from that of the extremist - you must show us how the extremist gets faith wrong - you must show how your faith functions on a different mechanic that is "right", and how that makes your belief about what god wants more likely to be true than theirs.  After all, you're both trying to act in accordance with god's will, right?  You just think that god wants us to do something different.

    Of course, faith does not eject the false and keep the true - the notion of faith can embrace any belief.  Faith is a horrible tool by which to acquire truth (think of all the people who follow faiths that aren't yours...most people on Earth must be wrong if you're right).  Faith is a means to circumvent reason and reality.  A single person in the 21st century believing that a man walked on water 2,000 years ago would be considered crazy, it is merely the number of people who believe it that rescues the believer from that assessment.  As Sam Harris put it, "It is merely an accident of history that it is considered normal in our society to believe that the Creator of the universe can hear your prayers, while it is demonstrative of mental illness to believe that he is communicating with you by having the rain tap in Morse code on your bedroom window."  Because faith is a means to reject reason and reality when they threaten to obliterate a belief, faith disarms us of our only tools to separate credible truth claims from non-credible truth claims, and often makes bad ideas it allows us to adopt immune to any conceivable challenge from the world of evidence.  It is clear that the moderate's faith is no more likely to be true than the extremist's because they operate on the same mechanics, even if the moderate's faith is thankfully less dangerous.

    Because both faith that leads to murder/discrimination and faith that leads to charity operate under the same principle, it is impossible for me to criticize one but not the other.  I am a critic of lazy thinking, and both sides of the theological coin are equally guilty.  Citing to me that your faith is different does not rescue it from this accusation, and it certainly has no bearing on whether or not the nutjob got faith wrong - perhaps god really is talking to him and not you. 

    So what I wanted to touch on here was the first of the two options above since, as I explained, I think they're both really the same thing.  Ages ago I wrote a letter to the editor that I think would fit nicely into my blog at this time.  Enjoy.



    Reflect that almost every Christian who has ever lived has not represented "true" Christianity by modern standards. Christians from a century ago were busy citing passages like 1 Timothy 2:12 in order to oppose womans' suffrage. Before that, it was slave-holders of the American South using scripture to subjugate their slaves. For centuries before that we killed red-haired women for witchcraft and burned our best scholars at the stake for even speculating about the Earth's motion (now that we realize that there are no witches and that there never were, one does not know whether to laugh or cry).

    The history of the Christian faith is a kaleidoscope of unconscionable cruelty and a certain, murderous disregard for truth. Just think of all the great lights of Christian history who would likely be dismissed from "true" Christianity by the modern, moderate crowd for their waltzes with holy malice - this list would likely include almost every saint and most certainly every pope. If you believe that people like St. Augustine (who believed that non-believers should be tortured) and St. Thomas Aquinas (who believed that non-believers should be killed) had never read the sermon on the mount, you are sadly mistaken.

    The closer you get to Jesus historically from where we stand now, the more monstrous "true" Christianity has been, and it gets worse as you move into the times before Jesus. The old testament is bursting at the seams with unthinkable savagery that is not only endorsed by god, but mandated by him. The scriptures that lead to these horrors are still in Christianity's holy book. The credit for our liberation from them does not belong to "true" Christianity, but rather to generations of free thinkers who have made Christians ashamed to live by the tenets that have defined Christianity for the last 6,000 years.

    There are over 34,000 different sects of Christianity according to the World Christian Encyclopedia, all of which are making claims to being the "true" Christianity. If we ever needed additional evidence that faith is an immeasurably poor means of discerning truth, this is it. It seems clear that there is no such thing as "true" Christianity, there are only millions of people in this country treating their feelings as though they were facts, and people are bound to feel differently.

Comments (40)

  • SerenaDante
  • Schristian

    I define "true" Christianity as the 100% following of every passage of the Bible as is LITERALLY writ. One must practise EVERY ritual and ideology from the contents of the tome to fall under the category of a "true". Then again, it's just perception.

  • SADABOY

    Dear ZW21:
    A Hearty Good Morning to you from India.
    SerenaDante,my friend recommended you, and I feel that you are thinking somewhat along the same lines as I do.Both of us are analytical too!!
    Please read my blog Analyzing FAITH-fully at http://www.xanga.com/sadaboy
    You are cordially invited to be my friend also!!
    sadaboy(Prof Dr Sadasivan India)

  • mooshpitmatt
  • ThePraisedOne

    God knows best about "true" Christianity

  • Zerowing21

    @ThePraisedOne - Spectacular.  The burden is still yours to establish that you know better what god wants than someone else.  That was the whole point of the post.

    JT

  • ThePraisedOne

    @Zerowing21 - You're right. We plan doing what ever we believe is lawfully and theologically right and truth, yet God will decide in the end (Judgment Day) whether our do's and deeds are in accordance to His will and word.

  • Zerowing21

    @ThePraisedOne - But you have an obligation to hold good reasons why you think that is the case.  The fact that what is true about the world dictates morality thrusts that responsibility upon us.  My assertion is that all religious people, including you, have failed it.

    It's not enough to simply say "Nuh uh, god will judge us all eventually."  Why do you believe that to be true, and why are you more likely to be right than Fred Phelps or some other wacko?

    JT

  • ThePraisedOne

    @Zerowing21 - I agree. Everyone has the obligation to hold good reasons why he/she think that is the case. But God did not create everyone the same in intellectual and in appearance. Even the Siamese twins differ slightly different in looks and in characteristics. There are people who may agree with us, nevertheless, there will be some who do not. Everybody wants to be perfect, who doesn't want to?? We can do our best, no harm in doing or trying, but bear in mind "nobody's perfect". 100% sinless perhaps but not 100% perfect.

  • MelFamy

    I would have no problem believing in a supernatural deity, if the creature would just show its superior self. Do a coupla miracles, BAM! Law's mercy, I believe! See how easy I am? But I cannot fathom an intelligent entity expecting us to pick the right religion based on faith. One's faith is inculcated over time, and depends on where one was born as to what propaganda one accepts as, forgive me, gospel. So I thank serendipity that my parents were disabused of a higher power early on, and passed their skepticism unto me.

  • anonymous

    This was an excellent read.  The moderate Christians need to ask themselves some difficult questions; perhaps if they do, they'll recognize that they've been perpetuating the same brand of fallacy peddled by their more vociferous cousins on the far Right.

  • jlDuuuuukes09

    Roman Catholic would be the true Christianity since it was that Church that was there in the beginning. All the other denominations broke away from the Catholic church because they didn't want to follow the Catholic churches exact rules.

  • In_Reason_I_Trust

    ThePraisedOne = FAIL.  He's clearly not even grasping what you're saying, JT. You press for valid reasons, and he keeps spewing out the same unfounded, speculative drivel.  Oh, well.

  • Brosho7
  • Da__Vinci

    I've been reading debates between skeptics and Christians for years and I've seen this pea and cup routine so many times. No matter what you say about Christians and Christianity, it's always the 'other' Christians. I wish this would get featured attention, but then again, who would listen.


    Trying to pin some people of faith to a reason as requested in their own book: 2 Timothy 2:15
    Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
    2 Timothy 2:14-16 (in Context) 2 Timothy 2 (Whole Chapter)


    Or even the old testament where God is reported through Isaiah to have said: Isaiah 1:18
    "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
    Isaiah 1:17-19 (in Context) Isaiah 1 (Whole Chapter)


    Like you've stated, the work of the Christian these days is to claim that they themselves, of all the 34,000 brands out there, of all the other philosophies and religions out there as well, have the true edited, revised, and reinterpreted, version of the faith.


    The problem isn't so much what they believe, because one can believe some strange things and be a skeptic too, it's that they cannot give a "valid" reason for it, as your exchange with thepraisedone points out.


    Good post man, but let's hope you're not preaching to the 'rock band'.


  • audreywannabe

    wonderful read, as always

  • Chinese_Sait0u

    this post needs more attention.

  • Zerowing21

    @Chinese_Sait0u - *shrug*  I write to get my thoughts out...it's never been about getting attention for any of it, at least, not in my eyes.  Maybe I should.  Meh.

    If you'd like to link to it, feel free.  :)

    JT

  • Chinese_Sait0u

    @Zerowing21 - it's just pretty well written. im rather surprised that a lot of your posts don't get that many views/comments.

  • Zerowing21

    @Chinese_Sait0u - Awe, thanks.  :)  *flattered*

    There are better resources for science/philosophy than a music nerd and astronomy nut blogging about them.  Still, I'm always very flattered when people find them helpful.

    If you think they need more traffic, you're free to link them.  :)

    JT

  • thirst2

    @Zerowing21 - I have to agree with Chinese_Sait0u, I'm surprised this doesn't have more attention. The situation is slightly different for me, in part because I believe the religion must be tried with reason and logic. I'm also a more liberal theologian, so some of the footfalls that others stumble into with literal, just-as-it's-written understanding of the bible. That being said, I've never assumed I know everything. Everything I do and how I act, I can give reasoning and backing to them. But I think any reasonable theologian (or person, for that matter) would admit to not being 100% certain on every thing they do and believe. We always have room to learn and grow (through logic, of course). You're right, faith (spiritual or otherwise, for they are so closely related) is a poor fashion to live out your life. I differ because I expect a logical argument for everything I do, but that's certainly not the case for every (most, we could very likely say) Christian out there. In any case, the long winded comment is meant to say I agree with you. It is a well written post, though I happened across it a bit after its writing.

  • jrmaxwell

    Ironic though it is, I end up wishing there were a way to pray for Christians to open their eyes. LOL.

  • OhItWontBeForever

    "1.  My faith is more likely to be true than theirs.
    2.  My faith is not more likely to be true, but it is more benign."

    No, it's: My faith is the correct folling of my religion and scripture. Theirs is a mix of some scripture taken out of context, plus their own desires/agenda. Like the Iranian ayatollah claims rape is okay after doing a ritual washing... yeah, that's just him wanting an excuse to rape women and men. It's nowhere in scripture. I don't see it as Islaam.

    You will see tis on studying the religion and not the people. You will see that those commiting sexist, extreme, violent acts are, in fact, not practising the religion under which they deem these acts acceptable. Simple as. :)

    I enjoyed this post. Interesting.

  • Zerowing21

    @OhItWontBeForever - If the factual basis for your scripture is not confirmable in some way, who cares if your actions are correct in following it?

    JT

  • OhItWontBeForever

    Me. I'm not only a Muslim, I am a human, too. Don't you care about morals and good acts? Well, so do I, Muslim or not.

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