Thursday, 02 December 2010
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Jesus never existed
I was reading cracked.com this morning (Five Things You Won't Believe Aren't In The Bible), when I was reminded of David Fitzgerald's recent post on Atheism Resource in which he shows us an excerpt of his book, NAILED: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed At All. In it, David goes through some preliminary explanations for how we can know a historical Jesus never existed. Enjoy.
Didn’t There Have to Have Been a Jesus?Most people have never heard of the ancient Greek mythographer Euhemerus, who first theorized that the gods of mythology were deified human beings, and their myths based on legends sprung from accounts of real people and events. So many might be surprised to find that they are Euhemerists on the subject of Jesus. That is to say, though they may not believe Jesus was the divine Christ that Christianity venerates as the Son of God and savior of the world, and may regard accounts of the miracles and wonders attending him as mere legendary accretion, nevertheless they certainly believe there had to have been a central figure that began Christianity.
Perhaps he was just a wandering teacher or an exorcist, an apocalyptic prophet or a zealot who opposed the Romans. Perhaps he was all these things, or even a composite of several such early first-century figures; but at any rate, surely there had to be somebody at the original core of Christianity, arguably the most famous individual in human history. All this seems to be a perfectly reasonable, completely natural assumption to make – so why would anyone be so foolish as to propose that Jesus never existed?
Doesn’t it just make more sense to assume that there was a historical Jesus, even if we are unable to recover the real facts about his life and death? As it turns out, no. The opposite is true: the closer we look at the evidence for Jesus, the less solid evidence we find; and the more we find suspicious silences and curious resemblances to the pagan and Jewish religious ideas and philosophies that preceded Christianity. And once you begins to parse out the origins of this tradition or that teaching from their various sources, the sweater begins unraveling quickly until it becomes very difficult to buy that there ever was – or even could have been – any historical figure at the center.
Christianity, like all religious movements, was born from mythmaking; and nowhere is this clearer than when we examine the context from which Jesus sprang. The supposed historical underpinning of Jesus, which apologists insist differentiates their Christ from the myriad other savior gods and divine sons of the ancient pagan world, simply does not hold up to investigation.
On the contrary, the closer we examine the official story, or rather stories, of Christianity (or Christianities!), the quicker it becomes apparent that the figure of the historical Jesus has traveled with a bodyguard of widely accepted, seldom examined untruths for over two millennia…
It’s true enough that the majority of Biblical historians do not question the historicity of Jesus – but then again, the majority of Biblical historians have always been Christian preachers, so what else could we expect them to say? For all their bluster, the truth is that for as long as there have been Christian writings, there have been critics who have disputed Christian claims and called events from the Gospel stories into question. And since at least the 18th century a growing number of historians have raised serious problems that cast Jesus’ historicity into outright doubt, as we’ll see.
Jesus vs. Julius Caesar
For instance, historian Richard Carrier has pointed out the problems with Christian apologist Douglas Geivett’s claim that the evidence for Jesus’ resurrection meets “the highest standards of historical inquiry,” and is as certain as Julius Caesar’s crossing of the Rubicon in 49 B.C.E. Carrier notes, “Well, it is common in Christian apologetics, throughout history, to make absurdly exaggerated claims, and this is no exception.” Then he compares the evidence for both events:
First of all, we have Caesar’s own account. In contrast, we have nothing written by Jesus, and we do not know who really wrote any of the Gospels. Second, many of Caesar’s enemies reported the crossing of the Rubicon. But we have no hostile or even neutral records of the resurrection until over a hundred years after the supposed event, fifty years after Christian beliefs had become widely known. Third, there are numerous inscriptions, coins, mentions of battles, conscriptions and judgments, which form an almost continuous chain of evidence for Caesar’s entire march. But there is no physical evidence of any kind in the case of Jesus.
Fourth, almost every historian of the period reports the Rubicon crossing, including the most prominent of the Roman age: Suetonius, Appian, Cassius Dio and Plutarch. Moreover, these scholars have shown proven reliability, since a great many of their reports on other matters have been confirmed with material evidence and in other sources. In addition, they all quote and name many different sources, showing a wide reading of the witnesses and documents, and they consistently show a desire to critically examine claims for which there is any dispute. If that wasn’t enough, all of them cite or quote sources written by witnesses, hostile and friendly, of the Rubicon crossing and its repercussions.
But not a single historian mentions the resurrection until the 3rd and 4th centuries, and then only Christian historians. Of the anonymous Gospel authors, only “Luke” even claims to be writing history, but neither Luke nor any of the others ever cite any other sources or show signs of a skilled or critical examination of conflicting claims. None have any other literature or scholarship to their credit that we can test for their skill and accuracy. Their actual identities are completely unknown, and all overtly declare their bias towards persuading new converts.
Finally, the Roman Civil War could not have proceeded as it did if Caesar had not physically crossed the Rubicon with his army into Italy and captured Rome. Yet the only thing necessary to explain the rise of Christianity is a belief — a belief that the resurrection happened. There is nothing that an actual resurrection would have caused that could not have been caused by a mere belief in that resurrection. Thus, an actual resurrection is not necessary to explain all subsequent history, unlike Caesar’s crossing of the Rubicon. Carrier concludes that while we have many reasons to believe that Caesar crossed the Rubicon, all of them are lacking in the case of the resurrection:
“In fact, when we compare all five points, we see that in four of the five proofs of an event’s historicity, the resurrection has no evidence at all, and in the one proof that it does have, it has not the best, but the very worst kind of evidence — a handful of biased, uncritical, unscholarly, unknown, second-hand witnesses. Indeed, you really have to look hard to find another event that is in a worse condition than this as far as evidence goes.”1
So even before we begin to examine Jesus’ resurrection, we are forced to recognize that the historical evidence for it, and all the other extraordinary events of Jesus’ career, is not only far from ironclad, but already suspect. So there is nothing unreasonable about taking a skeptical approach to the Gospels’ image of Jesus in the first place. And it’s important to note that we are not just talking about the divine man-god Jesus coming under fire, because it is not just the supernatural aspects of Jesus that have come under suspicion. Even the mundane and perfectly plausible-sounding aspects of Jesus’ life have proved to be problematic…
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Comments (110)
@Zerowing21 - Lol! Don't flatter yourself too much there, Big Guy. Your approval or "respect" means nothing to me. You must realize by now (because I've pointed it out to you on several occasions) I'm not after your affection or your conversion. My rebuttal post is to encourage other believers to pay little attention to the bullying of self congratulating Atheists. As I said earlier tonight:
~Invective is the gaudy window dressing on a very poor argument. There's no doubt that the garishness commands attention, but it doesn't add anything positive to the overall picture.
Your lack of taste and poor comportment is your problem not mine.
@Zerowing21 - did you erase my last comment?
@GodlessLiberal - What proof do you have that Jesus Christ never existed?
@Carsonsmom2 - That's a bad question. What evidence do you have that smurfs don't exist?
JT
@bakersdozen2 - My respect shouldn't matter to you. Accuracy in your world view should, but sadly doesn't. Confirmation of a priori conclusions is clearly your concern, and that is something you should care about if you respect yourself.
And religious people trying to co-opt academia for their cause should make people like me mad, and it does. I have no problem pointing out that you're an idiot. I can back the point up. You call it a problem, I call it the only sane reaction. So bitch all you like about how atheists like me are angry at religion and call you morons when you make moronic arguments (we don't call you a moron simply because you disagree). Crawl back to wherever you get approval to soothe you. I'll be here only caring if you have good arguments, and you have time and time again established that you don't care to.
And no, I didn't delete any of your comments.
JT
So if I can't see your brain, it doesn't exist???
@Carsonsmom2 - Did you read the entry I gave you?
Not only was your response answering something nobody ever said, it's makes a positively lame implication. People have seen brains (and a cross-examination of their testimony, combined with photographic evidence yields consistency), there's tons of evidence for them. You could see one yourself under the proper circumstances. Compare this to god.
JT
@Zerowing21 - I have nothing to gain by arguing with you. I will tell you that you were created by God and one day you will meet him, I pray it will be before you meet Him face to face. I can pray for the salvation of your soul and there's nothing you can do to prevent that. God is a relentless persuer and He loves you.
@Carsonsmom2 - Prayer is a more masturbatory gesture than, well, masturbation. At least you get something out of the latter.
You believe in a book that talks about talking snakes and people rising from the dead. You may as well tell me, just as emptily, that I should believe in magic because Voldemort is looking for me.
JT
I figured I'd respond to the argument from martyrdom on my own blog since bakersdozen2 suggested that skeptics avoid responding to it. I've responded to this argument many times both online and in person, and coming from both Christians and Muslims. I've never found it especially troubling, nor have my skeptical peers to my knowledge.
Blog here: http://wp.me/p17EJd-1n if anyone cares to read and respond.
@Zerowing21 - The WORD OF GOD says that you're a liar (I John 2:22) and I refuse to fill my mind with your trash. GOD have mercy on your soul.
@Carsonsmom2 - Oh, well if the WORD OF GOD says it, I'm sold. Especially since you typed it in all caps so I know you mean business.
JT
@bakersdozen2 - "The earliest discussions of the resurrection are found in the writings of Ignatius (50-115)" -- discussions by a heresy hunter. The author is talking about historians not heresy hunters when he says "But not a single historian mentions the resurrection until the 3rd and 4th centuries, and then only Christian historians." Ireneaus, Justin, Tertullian are not historians. They are heresy hunters and dogmatists. We don't encounter anything resembling a historian until Eusebius.
@rey - Just realized she said Ignatius rather than Ireneaus. Everybody knows Ignatius' writings are forged. And even if they weren't, the dating being cited here is WAY too early for him. Besides, who is he? Assuming HE even actually existed, he didn't live in Palestine. And he was engaged in a battle of words and doctrines with the Marcionites. Aren't Ignatius' letters directed at showing that his Catholic version of Jesus is true and the Marcionite version is false? To the Catholics, Jesus was God born as a man to the virgin Mary and he lived for 30 years, got crucified, then rose again. To the Marcionites he was God come down in the appearance of a 30 year old man without being born, without actually living as a man for 30 years, got crucified on purpose, and then rose from the dead, but to them the resurrection was clearly less physical. So, the "earliest discussions of the resurrection" were a bunch of infighting between two different Jesus-worshipping cults, the one who saw him as a real man literally born as a man and literally living for 30 years as a man and literally rising from the dead bodily, and the one that saw him as God come down from heaven looking like a 30 year old man without actually being one, dying but maybe not for real and resurrecting but maybe not in an actual human body.
'As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome". (Life of Claudius, 25:4)1'
We now know that Jesus was alive and well and instigating disturbances in Rome, proving the Gospels simply lied when they claimed he died in Jerusalem long before this expulsion.
@rey - Actually the earliest (valid historical) sources date back to the gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John not to mention the extra biblical gospel of Peter. These eyewitness accounts date to within 5 years of the resurrection of Jesus. A.T. Robinson of Cambridge University says "the burial of Jesus in the tomb is one of the earliest and best-attested facts about Jesus." The original copies are gone but the amazing agreement among the hundreds of fragments found lend credibility to this.
You're welcome to allow your particular prejudice to obscure the majority opinion of both secular and Christian authorities, but on this you stand with the minority.
@rey - @bakersdozen2 - The gospels are not considered historical documents. Luke is the only one of them that claims to be writing history rather than in the allegorical style of the time. Luke cites no sources and does not comport himself as a historian (first off, the book wasn't written by Luke the apostles).
What's more, Luke's writing compares to allegorical literature. Consider the approach to the empty tomb, where all the gospel writers focus on Mary, but all include their own take on it (in Luke's, Mary is accompanied by Joanna and Mary the mother of James, but not in any of the others - compare to the book of John where Mary has a crap ton of people with her).
JT
@Zerowing21- @rey - The Gospels represent legitimate chronicles of early eyewitness accounts. I'm not sure where either of you are going with the "legitimate historian" argument. Luke himself is believed to have been an incredibly thorough historical scribe by many secular textual critics. JT's tactic here is much like Bart Ehrmann's who tries to confuse the issue of inerrancy versus accuracy.
There is no question that secular historians affirm the Gospels as legitimate sources for historical proofs.There are a number of ways in which the content of information is dissected from the thousands of fragments that have been uncovered(and continue to be discovered) to prove the veracity of the New Testament. No rational person would ague that there are zero mistakes in recording a past event. Given the incredible wealth of fragments that have been found most critics put the reliability of the manuscripts to within 97%. Again this does not address the issue of inerrancy but instead it addresses the issue of accuracy.
@Carsonsmom2 -The whole counsel of Scripture is far more reliable than modern day bloggers. To put it simply, my money (my everything) is on Jesus.... not JT. I think most historians would agree that the accuracy of scripture supercedes that of xangans any day which is what this really boils down to, quite frankly. :)
@rey - @bakersdozen2 - No. We don't even know who wrote them, so how is it possible to verify their level of scholarship? What's more, all of them cite no sources. BD2 is simply wrong.
JT
@Zerowing21 - Those are not the standards applied by legitimate textual critics of ancient manuscripts. They look for historical, geographical and cultural congruity. Agreement with contemporary sources of the time.
JT, are you familiar with how the veracity of ancient manuscripts is determined? You aren't going to find formal citations and a bibliographies among fragments. I can point you to some sources that discuss how authenticity is established.
@bakersdozen2 - I am familiar with that process, as a matter of fact. But please point me to sources. I'd like to see what you consider reliable on this.
JT
@Zerowing21 - There are many reliable sources. At the moment, I'm reading Robert H. Stein. He outlines the criteria for authenticity in this way: (some categories have been condensed for simplification)
Positive Criterion:
1. The Criterion of Multiple Attestation
2. The Criterion of Embarrassment
3. The Criterion of Dissimilarity
4. The Criterion of Aramaic Linguistic and palestinian Environmental Phenomena
5. The Criterion of Tradition Contrary to Editorial Tendency
Negative Criterion:
1. The Criterion of Contradiction of Authentic Sayings
2. The Criterion of Environmental Contradiction
3. The Criterion of the Tendencies of the Developing Tradition
I was thinking about this while I was out and decided that I will write a post on the general topic of Apologetics with emphasis on this in particular. I fly to Atlanta tomorrow to see my other son graduate from AIT so I won't be able to address this until later this week. We're trying to get ready for the trip out, but it seems that this topic needs attention. No doubt 98% of Xanga will find it a great cure for insomnia. Have a good week!
@bakersdozen2 - Will wait up on those reliable sources.
JT
@bakersdozen2 - *sigh* Looked up Robert H. Stein. From the cover of his book...
Robert H. Stein is senior professor of New Testament interpretation at
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, Kentucky.
Not a historian. Not operating within peer review on the subject of history. Out to convince laymen. Go back to my response to you and read the portion on sourcing.
JT
@Zerowing21 - Hmmm, yes. Most people have a hard time taking a PhD. from Princeton Theological Seminary seriously (?)
"Robert H. Stein (PhD, Princeton Theological Seminary) was most recently senior professor of New Testament interpretation at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. He previously taught at Bethel Seminary. A world-renowned scholar of the Synoptic Gospels, Stein has published several books, including Luke, A Basic Guide to Interpreting the Bible, Studying the Synoptic Gospels, and Jesus the Messiah."